2009 Public Statements
Deputy Chief of Mission Deborah McCarthy Gives Interview in Thessaloniki "Angelioforos," Newspaper September 13, 2009
ANG: Ms. McCarthy, welcome here in Thessaloniki.
DCM: Thank you very much.
ANG: We have already 9 months of Obama’s presidency. Do you feel any change in the behavior of the other persons here in Greece towards you; do you think that there are things changed with the Obama presidency?
DCM: With the arrival of the Obama administration? I sense that with the enthusiasm that came out for the election and especially the interest of young people in the changes that have taken place in the United States. There is more interest in what is happening in the United States from the social point of view, the political point of view. This enabled us as diplomats to engage with more people; and with the administration’s approach of listening more before making decisions it has enabled us to reach out, to reach more people -- I mean to listen to more people, I should say. So there has been a change. But most important, what I find so enthusiastic is the change amongst younger people. They are interested again in our challenges, in trying to reform healthcare and so forth, so that has been an interesting change.
ANG: And to the point of international policy do you begin to see changes?
DCM: The changes that we see are changes in approaches to problems and issues that continued from the past and will continue in the future, whether we are talking about the challenges of how to handle issues in Afghanistan or the new challenges of the financial crisis, the challenges of climate change, the challenges of dealing with organized crime around the world, of poverty in particular as the financial crisis has had effects. It is a different approach but the issues do not change.
ANG: So you think that you do not have anything of the enthusiasm, and the spirits have the power and the momentum of the big change?
DCM: I think what is happening now is a lot of countries are looking to actions, what exactly, what steps we will take about Afghanistan, climate change, what are the concrete things that the new administration is bringing to the table, , and I think in a number of areas the action plans are being unfolded if they are not already, and there are more to come.
ANG: And in these areas also happening in Greece, the relationship that you have with the Greek people also, the change of attitude and all this.
DCM: With Greece one of the things we are trying to do and we have been trying to do it for a while is to engage with Greece as a partner on global challenges. Our relationship is key as we partner to work on bigger issues, issues relating to Europe, the structure of Europe, the architecture of Europe, issues related to major challenges, the financial crisis, how we are going to handle AFGHANISTAN. So that is the dialogue that we want to engage in, and it was clear when our Secretary met with Minister Bakoyannis, when they first met last February, it was easy to arrive at the understanding that we need to work on big issues, and we need to have regular dialogues on the large issues. We started that process, and on both the Greek side and the American side there has been a lot of willingness to do this, which is excellent.
ANG: Let us go to Afghanistan, very thorny issue, and we see this week that the average of American people is now against the war in Afghanistan. How are you going to …, do you think that the Obama’s administration is going to deal with that?
DCM: It is not just a US issue, ; it has been an international issue from the start. The partnership that started in Afghanistan with various countries was very different than the partnership in Iraq, so it is not just a U.S. issue. There are not only military challenges but alsodevelopment challenges. There are huge development challenges in Afghanistan and we are looking to help to work with the country to take it, for example, from 17th century agriculture methods to bring it up to maybe 19th century agriculture methods, so people who cannot even feed their own families have better ways to feed their families than just necessarily growing poppy and doing other things. That is big; that is a huge challenge. Both the military side, and the humanitarian and development side are extremely costly. We are a country that is conducting two wars, that is dealing with the aftermath of the financial crisis, is trying to reform its health care and is trying to reform a lot of things internally. It costs a lot, and so eventually when it comes to the budgets that have to be passed for these, it becomes a much more difficult situation. There are people dealing with the financial crisis at home, and there is always, always, in every country a reaction to the external commitments, to foreign assistance, so we need the money here, and that is the political challenge that every administration has, and this administration has as well. It is not an unusual point, but I think that we have to look at it in terms of the challenge that there is a military as well as a development issue.
ANG: That is what the Obama’s administration is going to explain to the American people in order to understand the cost of all and the costs and everything that…
DCM: There is a process, and this is very helpful for the American public, there is a process ongoing, which should be coming out a little bit later, which is how we are measuring the successes there. They are not just measured in military terms. We have measured how we are helping the standard of living for the country, and again it is not just us. There are other countries involved, and so when that comes out and those are the metrics, they can more precisely see how advances were made, and in some cases, some areas, maybe more slowly than others, so we should be waiting for that informationto come out.
ANG: But the security challenges are, especially now enormous and if much more, much many American or German soldiers, or British soldiers died, I think that is going to be much more reaction, not only from America’s people but also from the other parts of the world.
DCM: For over seven years, countless families in the United States have lost loved ones in Iraq or Afghanistan. At the same time for those who remember the reasons they went in, particularly in Afghanistan. People have not forgotten what it was like to see those towers crumbling in New York, and nearly every country of the world lost people on 9/11, so there is the issue of how much it costs in lives and financially. But there is also the memory of why we went in, and also the conscious knowledge that those who had engaged in those acts are still out there, and so, a withdrawal serves no purpose because we have all suffered. So the question is this: how best you get to improve the situation over there using both military and financial assistance. It is a challenge.
ANG: And would it be much more difficult now to persuade other countries to send more troops except for Spain that she said today that she is willing to increase the number of soldiers; I think that all the other countries and in the NATO alliance they are not so willing to send more troops. How are you going to…?
DCM: Well, let’s take the case of Greece for example. Greece has contributed in Afghanistan and Greece has indicated that it wishes to work particularly on the humanitarian side and on ther development; those areexcellent contributions. We welcome them. And that is a decision of a country to emphasize that side more than the military side- that is the country’s choice based on its own internal situation. And countries are weighing it that way, but we need a little bit of both. Some countries can do one, and other countries can do the other. And we need both. We, I mean all of us in there.
ANG: And what about Iraq? Do you think that it is in a situation that can go towards east or towards democracy? I mean democracy that is working good enough?
DCM: For Iraq what I could turn to is the agreement that we have with Iraq to slowly decrease our presence. This is when the Iraqis also clearly wanted to take responsibility for their own country. They have been doing so, and at a high cost in some cases as they continue to see some incidents. And I do not want to comment on their internal politics, but they have taken responsibilities with a lot of courage. It is a tough road. We stand ready to continue to work with them. But they do have major challenges. It is their country.
ANG: It is their country so they can do it..they can work with it as..as they want. And Iran..? I mean we know that president Ahmadinejad has until the 16th- 15th of September to respond to the openings that the Obama administration has already done. How do you think that this dialogue can work? Or it is going to be a dialogue?
DCM: It is not just the U.S. but the other countries are in the P-5 working with Iran. A non response is not just a non response to the United States, but to others. And we still wait. .
ANG: But it is the Obama..I mean the administration I think that not all the fingers are the same and sometimes the word of the USA counts much more than the other countries.
DCM: Our messages have been really clear on openness. Our messages have also been clear that it is not forever, but I think that the key challenge really is to find a way to have some sort of interchange. Because we do know that a lot of the population wants to have more contact with the west, not just with the United States, but with the h the west. And it is eager for it, so there is pressure inside. But as to why and how they have not responded that is for them to decide. But we certainly have extended the gesture.
ANG: Do you find probable another war? I mean, against Iran?
DCM: We are no talking in any terms like that; we are suggesting r having discussions, to start a process to have some interchanges. But again, that is a question you need to ask Iran; what they want.
ANG: That is true, that is true. You have been special co-coordinator for relations with Venezuela. It is a tough country, it is not easy, as you know. Can you explain us the relation that is now going on?
DCM: Certainly. Venezuela is a country that has had very, very strong ties with the United States -- very strong ties. People have their families between the United States and Venezuela, and the president of Venezuela has had a difficult relationship with the United States. We have consistently, in the case of Venezuela, always left the door open. And I think it was a good gesture more recently that we now had our two ambassadors go back to begin their normal diplomatic activities. We have, as I said, deep interest in Venezuela and its future; its economic situation is difficult and that is going to be a challenge for that government in the future. It has obviously oil. It has revenues. And how they use that, those funds for the future of the country in terms of investment will really determine where that country goes. Another comment is that there have been difficulties in terms of freedom of expression, particularly for journalists in Venezuela and I must say that the international community of journalists in general, has shown solidarity to the journalists in Venezuela as they attempt to explain what is going on in their country, and that is something to be admired in the field of journalism.
ANG: And today you have had a major demonstration in Latin America but also in New York and Madrid against the Chavez Presidency.
DCM: We applaud international solidarity for freedom of expression.
ANG: And can we go back to Greece? What about the visas? Are we going to solve this problem? Are we going to travel easy?
DCM: On the visa waiver process I am smiling because I think we are very close to finishing everything. Your parliament passed the documents that they needed to review and they did so in record time, I must say. The Greek government worked very hard on it, the Greek parliament worked hard on it. Now, we need to complete a process on our side, which isf the last piece. We are certainly urging for that to be done very quickly and in fact we are hoping it is quite soon. I cannot judge what the whole bureaucracy will do, but I feel confident that we are almost there. We are very pleased that soon for Greece it will be the open exchange and freedom to travel that both our countries are very much looking forward to.
ANG: What about Turkey? She has an upgraded position according to the Obama administration, but we had a very hot summer in the Aegean Sea, with a lot of provocations from Turkey. We the three countries are all of us members of the NATO alliance. What exactly is the role of Greece in this triplet?
DCM: You mentioned something which is that Greece is a key member of NATO and the European Union. Greece has a unique relationship with Turkey. Greece and Turkey play a huge role in the stability of the southern part of NATO. They have worked together. They need to work together. We have encouraged on both sides to have more exchanges, to use f mechanisms that are already there, to address issues such as the differences in the Aegean. Because, as we look to the future, both within NATO and within the European Union, the question is how NATO can become stronger, how the European Union decides on Turkey’s accession; Greece plays a huge role on this -- it is vital. So thet relationship is seen as fundamentally important.
ANG: Besides the provocations:…I mean, I do not know..Well, that is ok.
DCM: I will add a comment on relations between neighbors: the United States has close relations with our neighbor to the north and our neighbor to the south. In some cases in the past, it was difficult to have a good relationship with our neighbor to the south. But we knew for our future, as part of North America, that it was essential that something had to be done for ar stable relationship. So that is my point. The relationship between Greece and Turkey is fundamentally important.
ANG: To find the ways to elaborate the good things and..
DCM: Exactly.
ANG: And Russia..? What is the role that she is playing now in the international level? And exactly the energy part. It has a lot of…the Nabucco, the South Stream. How do you see the…?
DCM: First let me mention that we have a much more robust dialogue with Russia under this administration, at all levels. We have many, many bilateral mechanisms , with h some special l mechanisms to talk about energy issues, so that is between the United States and Russia, to talk about the global situation. As far as Europe is concerned, Europe’s efforts to to establish- atthe EU level- an energy policy, that we see as very important, to address not only sources, but also future sources, such as renewables, other sources, that is extremely important. As far as the issue of Russia being a source country for so many, it is a reality. I think a number of countries are assessing how best to f diversify their sources, including, most importantly, I want to come back to this issue, renewablesources . Greece for example, is a country blessed by sun, blessed by wind and we found, in engaging with Greece,even under our last administration, that we started to discuss the issue of renewables,the response on the Greek side was with incredible enthusiasm. ‘’Let us discuss, let us have our companies meet together, our regulators, our laboratories’’ and so forth. And it was such a positive thing! We think it is excellent. So when I talk about sources of energy, I want to emphasize that part. And Greece itself, I think, is looking to various sources
ANG: You said a lot about renewable energy. Do you think that in Copenhagen we are going to have a tangible decision that is going to help reducing the… have a…the situation after Kyoto?
DCM: I think that a lot of work has been done, some of it more public, some of it less public and I think that particularly with our EU partners, we are pretty close to coming to understandings. The challenge is really going to be with other countries: China, India… what agreements can be reached or at least a common base from which to start. I am not an expert in the field, so I cannot say they should accelerate this certain pace, or we need to do it more rapidly. But I think all the work that has been done, should enable at least some sort of baseline agreement of where to start the process. So I think the time is short but with the work that has been done and trying to find partnerships between countries, let’s say within the European Union, and what is happening with countries that are still in the development stage, is going to be key.
ANG: It was not written in the questions that we said but, as 9/11 approaches, do you think that it was a huge event that changed history? What happened in New York then, now we are 8 years after? What is the air, what is your feeling about it?
DCM: It was 9/11 but also modern terrorism that has changed history. As we look to 9/11, I think it is important to remember that there have been many victims of the new-style terrorism since then and as we prepare to commemorate that event, we need to do it in the memory of all those victims who have come before, during and after also. And that style of terrorism is something that is with us right now and is one of our major challenges. In the part of what we discussed earlier, Afghanistan- Pakistan, that style of terrorism has changed history.
ANG: Do you think that terrorism is a thorny issue between Greece and the US?
DCM: Ohi. (No) It is not. We are working really well with Greece. And Greece has worked really well with us. On the issue of domestic terrorism here in Greece, and also on the issue of international terrorism. On domestic terrorism, we have worked together in the past. We are cooperating now, we stand ready to work very closely and even more with what the government needs,i, what needs exist as Greece faces once again domestic terrorism. On international terrorism, as we look to partner to prevent those terrorists coming through Europe from arriving and acting in some place, not necessarily in the U.S., but also in Europe. We are cooperating at the law enforcement level, to keep track of what I call “bad people,” and we have very good cooperation with Greece. So that is an area that is I would say positive, it is a win-win all around. And it has been an excellent area of cooperation. No doubt.
ANG: Last but not least: do you think there is a thorny issue in our region?
DCM: We are working across the board from Afghanistan to the renewables dimension, to the terrorism issue I mentioned, to –with a smile on my face I say- the visa waiver. So no, we are old partners, we do not always interpret things the same way; we do not always see things the same way but we can sit down and have that discussion. And Greece has been, and this is something that we need to remember, Greece has been a close partner of the United States. I remembered this as I went to the Cinema Museum here; one of the film clips was of Greek soldiers who went to Korea. Many people do not remember that, but in all the major cataclysms, in times of war, Greece has worked with the U.S., and the U.S. has worked with her. I said ‘’she’’- I do not know if I am using the right term. And so no, I cannot think of an area. I really enjoy working here. It is true. Because we may have some differences of approach or something, but we can talk about them.
ANG: Do you have something to comment?
DCM: I would comment on visiting this museum in Thessaloniki that I thought was extraordinary. It was not only how it covered the history of film here in Greece, bu, for those of us who are foreigners, how it also covered all the key moments of the history of Greece on film, staring around 1905. So for those who have only read about the history, it comes alive through those films and it is extraordinary. So, it is a wonderful place.
ANG: Thank you very much.
DMC: Thank you